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29 February 2004 @ 09:41 pm
sunday girl  
I watch the posts on my flist flit by and yet I have no opinion on The Passion of the Christ, no interest in the Oscars, my god, not a care in the world, tra la la! ...yeah.

Yesterday was a productive day for writing, today not so much. I did a little of this, a little of that. Chicago finally hit cable. When I saw it in the theaters it was hard to take in--I'd expected something like Victor/Victoria, where the show numbers were subordinate to the movie format, rather than defining its structure. It threw me off. I like it a lot better now on rewatching. Queen Latifah's big number slays me every time I see it, Catherine Zeta-Jones's style has grown on me, and I love that one of the death-row girls killed her boyfriend for popping his gum. She could be my patron saint or something.

I'm so not ready to go to work tomorrow.

Last night, maybe inspired by Thamiris, I had this deep, well-thought out, probing question I was going to ask about why we love hateful characters, characters who if they were real would drive us beserk until we smacked them to death with a mallet. Or maybe send us running and screaming. Snape, Spike, Krycek, Lindsey, Snyder. Morality is a pointless consideration. Fascination doesn't usually have anything to do with whether your ethics align. Characters are either interesting or they're not. That's the only judgment worth making. Charismatic casting can be the hook, and then you get this engaging mix of the evil and the sexy. And it's in those grey overlapping spaces--a kind of liminal space?--that things get complex and sticky, keeping us buzzing with our feet in the fly-paper.

I said "liminal." Heh heh heh. Um. Yes. So that was going to be a question, but isn't.

I did have another thought this weekend. But it escaped.
Brassy Hag: spikemiggy on February 29th, 2004 10:02 pm (UTC)
I was thinking about that earlier, actually. I feel guilty for liking Tommy Vercetti, the absolutely horrible central figure in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. He has all the moral character of a reeking landfill, and yet I quite enjoy him. However, I do feel bad about that, while I don't over the characters you mentioned. (Well, at least the ones I know anything about.)

I came to the conclusion that it does have to do with the fact that the characters I feel no guilt over are those that are separated from me by something in their universe that makes it impossible for me to co-exist in their larger world. I would never meet them, so I can just enjoy them for being cleverly constructed characters with fascinating backgrounds and interactions. Tommy, though... I feel bad about liking a guy who's a brutal, murdering, terrorist gangster taking over "Miami." That crosses a line for me.

Not that I stop liking him.

I just feel bad about it.
(Anonymous) on March 1st, 2004 12:10 am (UTC)
Not that freek!;-)
Yes, I felt the same about the "hero" of GTA. I was blabbering "sorry,sorry, sorry!" every time accidentally (really!) running over a streetwalker. Hated that crunching sound. However I get a leer on my face whenever I see Mr William the Bloody going really at "the Big Bad" role (okay, Btvs Season 2 is again on TV here) A long long time ago in a far away galaxy I watched X-Files, and was fond of Mulder (until he was taken away by those nasty and selfish aliens, and then that show went really...khm), but I couldn't really be angry at Krycek, or hate him for anything. I think (maybe I'm stupid) but there is something about them showing a "pretty" human side, kind of a weakness, not the "totally deeply horribly hell deep evil" but - excuse me for using this worn out phrase - "fallen angels", no Ats pun inteded. I've always symphatized with the Lightbringer or Lightcarrier, the rebellious Lucifer going against rules and tyrannism.
Sorry for my sucker English, not my native. Hmm, probably nobody was interested in my opinion, in that case sorry for boring.

By the way, my sweetest and nicest and darkest Anna, do you see some chance in the future, that you will be so kind and feel the creativity to write some fanfic? Some S/X (heh, really???, S E X, that never ever occured to me!:))) By the way my name is Eszter, probably I'm the E between. :))) No, no, the angry mob is coming, I was just kidding! And I would be forever indebted to you, if you continued Season Noir. I love that story. Okay, sorry, shutting my big mouth. Please do not IP-ban me, I promise not to make any more snorts in this year,is that okay? Thank you in advance. And thank you for the wonderful fics. Bye.
light of other days: bootlickiliadawry on February 29th, 2004 10:02 pm (UTC)
I love Snape because he's so limitlessly human and fallible, in a world of adults that are very two-dimensional. We love Snape (as we hate him) cringingly, because we understand -- unlike the Dursleys, who must be simply hated, or Dumbledore, who is so close to perfect that we can't really understand him.

The fact that they put Rickman in his robes for the movie was simply a clear, crystalline moment on the part of the casting people. I loved and hated him in the books.

Snyder, assuming he's the one from Buffy, I pretty much just hated. Whoops.
Poshykittyposhcat on February 29th, 2004 10:02 pm (UTC)
I agree completely with your take on loving the bad guys. It's their pleasure in how well they do bad that makes me adore them.

And...Snyder? Do you mean the super from One Day at a Time? I always thought his moustache was very naughty. :0D
iyalodeiyalode on March 1st, 2004 04:22 am (UTC)
Might I be so bold as to add a female to this list? Madeline from La Femme Nikita.

The Mona Lisa of moral ambiguity and wonderfully acted by Alberta Watson.
(Anonymous) on March 1st, 2004 04:28 am (UTC)
And then there are characters like Mayor Wilkins, who are downright cuddly, and equal parts despicable. It's so hard to hate someone who puts a smile on your face every time you see them.

The mirror universe version of Intendent Kira from DS9 affected me the same way. I just can't despise someone, no matter how much I dissapprove of the stuff they do, who so effortlessly loves herself and her job.

It's the difference for me between Vampire Willow, who seemed fun, in a scary 'don't want to meet her in a dark alley' sort of way and Dark Willow, who was utterly charmless.

deborahcdeborahc on March 1st, 2004 08:49 am (UTC)
It took me a while to warm up to "Chicago" too. I enjoyed seeing the movie in the theatre but since borrowing the DVD I have really fallen in love with it. It reminds me a lot of Dennis Potter's "The Singing Detective" & "Pennies From Heaven" (The BBC series, not the movies) in its use of the musical numbers as expressions of a character's imagination; her way of visualizing the world in terms of songs and dances that reflect her feelings, problems, or situations.

Anyway, I decided to get the CD (movie soundtrack) and found it online, really cheap. Let me know if you want to know where I got it.
Folieadeux: tasty by foliecallmefolie on March 1st, 2004 04:37 pm (UTC)
Maybe because the villians we love to hate are always so
sure of themselves. The heros (at least the ones we love) are conflicted and filled with self-doubt which we relate to. But the villians are so certain, and posess such flair about it. Maybe we all long to be less self aware and more self assured?

My .02 anyway. :-)