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27 September 2003 @ 12:41 pm
oh my god.  
Giles's outfit in "The Harvest," when he's got the brown cardigan buttoned up and the twee handkerchief peeping out of one pocket?

Gayest. Look. Ever.

I will accompany this post with the icon of Giles Glaring at Me.




ETA: Other interesting things about "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest."

- Buffy exhibits from the very beginning an incredibly savvy and creative approach to fighting; when she goes up against Luke she kills him by tricking him into thinking he's been struck by sunlight. And yet two seasons later, the council still thinks she needs to go through the brain-not-brawn ritual in "Helpless"? Shyeah. That ritual was such a crock. There were some ulterior motives there that even Giles didn't know about. I've seen someone theorize that it was historically intended to kill off slayers before they became obstreperous and uncontrollable--too strong. I'm not sure that theory works perfectly, but I do wonder about the point.

- Angel is very hands-off in the beginning, and super-suave, and it's hard to reconcile his weird, stalkery, uncommitted behavior towards Buffy with later retcons.

- Darla is not the Darla we see later, queenly and composed and in complete control. She's a bit servile toward the Master, much the minion. You've got to wonder what happened to her along the way and what she was doing for the last 30 years before the Master began his attempt to rise.

- Willow bests Darla with holy water. Darla's not at the top of her game.

- Buffy saves Xander, Willow saves Giles, Xander saves Cordelia.

- Cordelia exhibits her earliest signs of geek-interest (for Vamp!Jesse).

- Xander kills one of his best friends (inadvertantly, but it counts); before he does, he's pretty obviously torn up about Jesse turning into a vampire. Afterwards, we don't see an especially heavy reaction. If he's feeling anything, he's hiding it. It makes you wonder what kind of practice he's had hiding bad things. (Of course, Willow exhibits the same roll-with-the-punches good humor, so it's not the best evidence of Xander's secret domestic abuse history. Heh.)

- Again, I must point out: Giles is very gay.

...skipping away now...
 
 
 
Disgracelandsdisgracelands on September 27th, 2003 12:48 pm (UTC)
Giles's outfit in "The Harvest," when he's got the brown cardigan buttoned up and the twee handkerchief peeping out of one pocket?
Gayest. Look. Ever.


For some reason the words Gayest Look Ever sent me into hysterics. Though I would argue that Giles with cravat as theatrical impressario in Restless was pretty damn supergay too.
Anna S.eliade on September 27th, 2003 01:10 pm (UTC)
Though I would argue that Giles with cravat as theatrical impressario in Restless was pretty damn supergay too.

Oh so true! But in a very intentional way, of course, whereas Giles's look and mannerisms in the early episodes...well, you have to wonder. It looks as if ASH took direction to "Act super British" and interpretively ran with it as "Act incredibly fruity." It amuses me a great deal. *g*
Disgracelandsdisgracelands on September 27th, 2003 01:32 pm (UTC)
Well, Season One was also home to the "12 inches" rule that Giles was never allowed within a foot of the Scoobs, in case he came across as some crusty, middle-aged perv so maybe that's why ASH also also took it upon himself to yes, another delicious phrase, act incredibly fruity. Though he is a stage luvvie so it's no wonder. And no wonder that "theatrical" is a euphemism for "being supergay."
gwynnega: Willow/Giles in librarygwynnega on September 27th, 2003 02:46 pm (UTC)
Though I would argue that Giles with cravat as theatrical impressario in Restless was pretty damn supergay too.

Bwahaha!

Well, Season One was also home to the "12 inches" rule that Giles was never allowed within a foot of the Scoobs

Actually Joss Whedon comments on this in the S1 commentaries - because in the first two eps, he violates that rule both with Buffy and Willow! (For example: in "The Harvest" Giles does his first lean-really-close-to-Willow-at-the-computer move.)

Disgracelandsdisgracelands on September 28th, 2003 04:10 am (UTC)
Even the 12 inch rule is no match for the Gileslow love!
gwynnega: Willow/Giles in librarygwynnega on September 28th, 2003 10:23 am (UTC)
Hee! Yes - for Willow, Giles defied the 12 inch rule time and again!

(Deleted comment)
Anna S.eliade on September 27th, 2003 01:04 pm (UTC)
Yes--this *is* one of the benefits of having a work laptop. Couch camping! *g*

Except that so far I've gotten very little of my intended writing done. I've just been watching the pretty people on the TV and gabbing in LJ.

Xander was just so pretty back in the day; it's killing me, man.
Tuesday Has No Phones: glassesthebratqueen on September 27th, 2003 01:07 pm (UTC)
It's scary when you realize that the hair Xander had back in the early seasons would ultimately prove to be some of his best.
Tuesday Has No Phonesthebratqueen on September 27th, 2003 12:55 pm (UTC)
I always figured that Darla was very Scarlett O'Hara like and therefore knew to play up different parts of her personality around different men. Not that this was ever conclusively shown onscreen, but she struck me as the type to be more than happy to do whatever was necessary to butter up some man to make sure he was first in line for the stakes ;)

Plus she'd had all those years without Angelus. She was pretty happy with the Order until Angelus swept her off her feet, so maybe losing the big lug made her go back to Daddy again, so to speak.
Anna S.eliade on September 27th, 2003 01:01 pm (UTC)
I always figured that Darla was very Scarlett O'Hara like and therefore knew to play up different parts of her personality around different men.

Oh, good point. Yes. In her "Angel" (the series) arc, she totally plays both Angel and Lindsey. I kept wondering how much of her "helpless human me" routine was for real; how much of the soul angst was genuine, how much was manipulation of the men in service of her goal. A similarly fine line: how much of Darla's quivery, breathless little-girl act while she was human was deliberately intended to come across as an act, and how much was Julie Benz's dubious acting skills? (That's a bit mean; I like her quite a lot as Darla, but I still have to wonder.)
Tuesday Has No Phones: bitchthebratqueen on September 27th, 2003 01:12 pm (UTC)
If I ever wrote a "My Darla" it would include words to the effect of how Darla quickly realized that Angelus was much, much nastier and stronger than she was, and therefore she had to do what she could to cultivate the idea in his head that he couldn't live without her.

It would also mention that she was smarter than he was and therefore was fairly successful with it.

Given how long she survived, and the reputation she managed to get, I suspect she was one clever cookie who knew that one way to stay alive was to keep plenty of men around who would do her bidding (and, again, act as cannon fodder). Heck, even when she's trying to get turned again the first thing she does is butter up the first stupid shempire she can get her hands on.

To me one of the interesting things is her stint in America. I bugged a friend of mine who works in Jamestown for the low-down on women who lived there back in the day for an arc in Epiphany that I later threw out. But I've still held on to the info b/c I always felt it could provide nifty insight into her character if ever I got inclined to work on it.
caiathisficklemob on September 27th, 2003 01:03 pm (UTC)
'Twas just thinking similar things about Darla. My excuse was that it was what the Master wanted out of his female servants, or at the very least, a persona she had learned worked for her in his system of hierarchy. Although, "His blood is pure!" is delivered with such ditzy 'I'm a vapid ho!' aplomb that you wonder...

All the characters take awhile to settle into themselves, very true.

caia
Djinannadjinanna on September 27th, 2003 01:14 pm (UTC)
Slayer test - I'm evenly divided between "bad plot device" and "sinister Watcher power ploy plot" myself.

Angel - not the most consistently written characterization in the Buffy-verse. Ret-con-a-go-go, in fact.

Darla - just ... agrred. Darla obviously re-visioned for her flashback appearances.

If he's feeling anything, he's hiding it. It makes you wonder what kind of practice he's had hiding bad things. (Of course, Willow exhibits the same roll-with-the-punches good humor, so it's not the best evidence of Xander's secret domestic abuse history. Heh.)>/i>

Or, actually, you *could* make an argument that Willow is also very skilled at hiding certain feelings per this evidence. Her mother is a shrink or an anthropologist (or both) isn't she? The kind who over-intellectualizes and over-analyzes everything and "understands you better than you do" and doesn't listen or believe when you try to clarify and defend your real actual position. I know the Hansel&Gretl episode is an unfair sampling to analyze Willow's mom from, but it's all we've got.

Still, I think there's a certain argument for Willow being abused via benign neglect mixed with micromanagement. I'm sure any big emotional outbursts were highly discouraged in the Rosenberg household.

Interesting thoughts.

However, I persist in believing wholeheartedly in Giles+Jenny4ever ::sobs re lost love thingee:: so Giles is eternally bi- to me. But I'd agree he probably prefers the boys (men) in general.
Anna S.eliade on September 27th, 2003 01:19 pm (UTC)
However, I persist in believing wholeheartedly in Giles+Jenny4ever ::sobs re lost love thingee:: so Giles is eternally bi- to me. But I'd agree he probably prefers the boys (men) in general.

Well, I was being facetious, of course. *g* His love for Jenny was true so he is at least bi. If bi-dom even exists in the Jossverse.

*cough*
Anna S.eliade on September 27th, 2003 01:21 pm (UTC)
Just to clarify what might not need clarifying, when I said "at least bi" I meant "bi or canonically straight." But I do like to think he took a few turns 'round the block with Ethan et al.
Djinannadjinanna on September 27th, 2003 01:48 pm (UTC)
(I knew you were being, well, semi-facetious anyway. I was, too. Shhh! Don't tell anyone!)

I said "bi" because of course he was with Ethan. I have a hard time remembering that Giles/Ethan isn't explicit canon. (Or at least Ripper/Ethan.)

Giles+Jenny and Giles+Ethan give me serious OTP conflict. Resolved by Jenny being dead, unfortunately. (Though a triangle could still be done, with "ghostly presence". Always thought TPTB missed a wonderful "ghostly presence" opportunity there. Oh sure, bare hints during the "find the disc with the spell" subplot, but nothing more than that. At least they could've haunted Giles for a bit.)
Darcy: sapphodarcydodo on September 27th, 2003 05:13 pm (UTC)
On the other hand, one always has to wonder about the English public school system and the products thereof, and hence not be so hasty when attaching the label "bi" or "straight" to an Englishman. ;)

My other comment about WttHM: Willow's dress in it is not the same as her dress in Restless, no matter what people may claim. One's a small plaid. The other's blocked suede. (Yes, I'm making up clothing terms now.)
Halimedehalimede on September 28th, 2003 07:31 am (UTC)
I have a hard time remembering that Giles/Ethan isn't explicit canon.

Weren't ritual orgies explicitly mentioned in canon? That ep where that demon comes back to haunt all the people who summoned it thusly, which included Giles & Ethan. (Can't remember the name of the ep due to flue induced headache.)
do you want orcs? because this is how you get orcs: Angeluskita0610 on September 27th, 2003 11:49 pm (UTC)
Angel wasn't supposed to live through the season. Hence the wonky character development.